Comments on: Blog for choice day http://www.speedkill.org/2007/01/22/1693/ Radioactive Toy Thu, 04 Dec 2008 01:15:46 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.5 By: Lina http://www.speedkill.org/2007/01/22/1693/#comment-425862 Lina Tue, 30 Jan 2007 04:13:22 +0000 http://www.speedkill.org/2007/01/22/1693/#comment-425862 You're right that I haven't worked out a proper, solid argument for what I feel. So here's what I feel, on its own: Whether you terminate a pregnancy in month 4 or month 8, who cares? Who's going to miss it? What is the harm done? Who is harmed? The fetus? Well, the fetus doesn't care. (And, extending that to admittedly an extreme, a 6-month-old doesn't care either. I should probably leave this part out, since it gets into convoluted policy issues. But I'm just explaining my gut reaction.) Is society as a whole harmed by not allowing the fetus to achieve its potential? Not at all, in my opinion. I've always hated the "but he could become president!" argument, as if we'd somehow have to endure 4 years *without* a president. There are literally billions more where that came from, so I'm sure society would get over its loss pretty quickly -- pretending that society would even know of the supposed loss, which is wouldn't. So I can't find a victim in this. You’re right that I haven’t worked out a proper, solid argument for what I feel. So here’s what I feel, on its own: Whether you terminate a pregnancy in month 4 or month 8, who cares? Who’s going to miss it? What is the harm done? Who is harmed? The fetus? Well, the fetus doesn’t care. (And, extending that to admittedly an extreme, a 6-month-old doesn’t care either. I should probably leave this part out, since it gets into convoluted policy issues. But I’m just explaining my gut reaction.) Is society as a whole harmed by not allowing the fetus to achieve its potential? Not at all, in my opinion. I’ve always hated the “but he could become president!” argument, as if we’d somehow have to endure 4 years *without* a president. There are literally billions more where that came from, so I’m sure society would get over its loss pretty quickly — pretending that society would even know of the supposed loss, which is wouldn’t. So I can’t find a victim in this.

]]> By: Jeff http://www.speedkill.org/2007/01/22/1693/#comment-425841 Jeff Mon, 29 Jan 2007 04:52:22 +0000 http://www.speedkill.org/2007/01/22/1693/#comment-425841 That doesn't seem like a good distinction. Don't kill a person because an acquaintance might miss him or her? Thinking of my acquaintances, I think I've caused more emotional distress by being a liberal than I would feel over one of their deaths. It seems strange to attribute value to human lives based on the value they have to others. Surely there are people out there who don't have families and are generally disliked. One can think of strange thought experiments that seem to lead to obviously immoral actions being not being so (everyone believes person x is dead when he/she isn't, killing him/her now won't cause any emotional distress). That doesn’t seem like a good distinction. Don’t kill a person because an acquaintance might miss him or her? Thinking of my acquaintances, I think I’ve caused more emotional distress by being a liberal than I would feel over one of their deaths. It seems strange to attribute value to human lives based on the value they have to others. Surely there are people out there who don’t have families and are generally disliked. One can think of strange thought experiments that seem to lead to obviously immoral actions being not being so (everyone believes person x is dead when he/she isn’t, killing him/her now won’t cause any emotional distress).

]]> By: Lina http://www.speedkill.org/2007/01/22/1693/#comment-425808 Lina Sat, 27 Jan 2007 06:53:55 +0000 http://www.speedkill.org/2007/01/22/1693/#comment-425808 Right, because everyone wants to adopt the crackbaby. But I guess that's neither here nor there. As for killing any drain on society, I think an important distinction is that the fetus has not developed relationships (of any sort whatsoever: family, friends, coworkers, even a sales person or an oft-seen stranger), and therefore no one would miss it in any personal way. Whereas you'd be hard-pressed to find a child or adult in the same position. Even the most down-and-out bum probably has family somewhere that would be affected in some way by news of his death. But, yes, I realize that a logical extension of this is that it's OK to kill even a born baby up to a certain point, which I'm also fine with (i.e., I'd rather the inept mother who dumps the baby in a trashcan not be a mother. And the idea of adoption just seems moot, since I don't see any inherent moral advantage to adding one more disadvantaged baby to the already overburdened and dysfunctional foster-care system. And that's IF the woman inept enough to throw her baby in a trashcan actually found the wherewithal to put it up for adoption, which is a risk I'm not sure is worth taking). Right, because everyone wants to adopt the crackbaby. But I guess that’s neither here nor there.

As for killing any drain on society, I think an important distinction is that the fetus has not developed relationships (of any sort whatsoever: family, friends, coworkers, even a sales person or an oft-seen stranger), and therefore no one would miss it in any personal way. Whereas you’d be hard-pressed to find a child or adult in the same position. Even the most down-and-out bum probably has family somewhere that would be affected in some way by news of his death. But, yes, I realize that a logical extension of this is that it’s OK to kill even a born baby up to a certain point, which I’m also fine with (i.e., I’d rather the inept mother who dumps the baby in a trashcan not be a mother. And the idea of adoption just seems moot, since I don’t see any inherent moral advantage to adding one more disadvantaged baby to the already overburdened and dysfunctional foster-care system. And that’s IF the woman inept enough to throw her baby in a trashcan actually found the wherewithal to put it up for adoption, which is a risk I’m not sure is worth taking).

]]> By: Jeff http://www.speedkill.org/2007/01/22/1693/#comment-425791 Jeff Fri, 26 Jan 2007 05:33:49 +0000 http://www.speedkill.org/2007/01/22/1693/#comment-425791 I think it's a false choice, because the child can be put up for adoption. Besides, doesn't your logic allow you to kill basically anyone you deem a drain on society, fetus or not? I think it’s a false choice, because the child can be put up for adoption. Besides, doesn’t your logic allow you to kill basically anyone you deem a drain on society, fetus or not?

]]> By: Lina http://www.speedkill.org/2007/01/22/1693/#comment-425790 Lina Fri, 26 Jan 2007 04:49:58 +0000 http://www.speedkill.org/2007/01/22/1693/#comment-425790 Which do you consider more immoral: Aborting a 7-month-old fetus who will be born to an uneducated, abusive, drug-addicted, irresponsible, poor, and otherwise fucked-up single mother or not? I'm not interested in starting a debate, because you know my position already. I'm just asking seriously what your thoughts are on that. Which do you consider more immoral: Aborting a 7-month-old fetus who will be born to an uneducated, abusive, drug-addicted, irresponsible, poor, and otherwise fucked-up single mother or not? I’m not interested in starting a debate, because you know my position already. I’m just asking seriously what your thoughts are on that.

]]> By: S4R http://www.speedkill.org/2007/01/22/1693/#comment-425741 S4R Tue, 23 Jan 2007 11:07:05 +0000 http://www.speedkill.org/2007/01/22/1693/#comment-425741 I don't take issue with killing anything in utero. There are enough babies born every day, and too many people alive living in abject poverty to waste time caring about people not even born yet. I don’t take issue with killing anything in utero. There are enough babies born every day, and too many people alive living in abject poverty to waste time caring about people not even born yet.

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