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	<title>Comments on: Curiosities of the global warming debate</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.speedkill.org/2008/04/15/1968/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.speedkill.org/2008/04/15/1968/</link>
	<description>Radioactive Toy</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 12:31:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Big Sky Cairn &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Global Warming Debate - Science &#38; Faith</title>
		<link>http://www.speedkill.org/2008/04/15/1968/#comment-467423</link>
		<dc:creator>Big Sky Cairn &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Global Warming Debate - Science &#38; Faith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 21:50:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.speedkill.org/2008/04/15/1968/#comment-467423</guid>
		<description>[...] grants me a lot of ground when he agrees that global warming can never be proven and he&#8217;s right that scientific method does not seek [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] grants me a lot of ground when he agrees that global warming can never be proven and he&#8217;s right that scientific method does not seek [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Stevens</title>
		<link>http://www.speedkill.org/2008/04/15/1968/#comment-465181</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Stevens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:51:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.speedkill.org/2008/04/15/1968/#comment-465181</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I actually don't know many working environmentalists, activists, or intellectuals to subscribe to any of the beliefs you list. Earth Firsters, sure, but they are neither "working" nor active. College students, maybe. People who donate to causes, knock on doors occasionally, but aren't setting policy, definitely.

Or it could be we run in different circles.

Still, it seemed a hasty generalization to me, one that feeds into a general and negative stereotype that isn't necessarily true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I actually don&#8217;t know many working environmentalists, activists, or intellectuals to subscribe to any of the beliefs you list. Earth Firsters, sure, but they are neither &#8220;working&#8221; nor active. College students, maybe. People who donate to causes, knock on doors occasionally, but aren&#8217;t setting policy, definitely.</p>
<p>Or it could be we run in different circles.</p>
<p>Still, it seemed a hasty generalization to me, one that feeds into a general and negative stereotype that isn&#8217;t necessarily true.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.speedkill.org/2008/04/15/1968/#comment-464501</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Apr 2008 00:31:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.speedkill.org/2008/04/15/1968/#comment-464501</guid>
		<description>Prejudiced, huh? I'm criticizing people for a world view, not stereotyping them based on irrelevant characteristics. I meant, generally, activists and intellectual leaders. I'm not saying there aren't plenty of knowledgeable environmentalists, but there are a lot of them who confuse weather with climate (the same way a lot of global warming deniers do), oppose logging to an irrational extent, and oppose any measures that adapt to global warming, rather than mitigate it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prejudiced, huh? I&#8217;m criticizing people for a world view, not stereotyping them based on irrelevant characteristics. I meant, generally, activists and intellectual leaders. I&#8217;m not saying there aren&#8217;t plenty of knowledgeable environmentalists, but there are a lot of them who confuse weather with climate (the same way a lot of global warming deniers do), oppose logging to an irrational extent, and oppose any measures that adapt to global warming, rather than mitigate it.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Stevens</title>
		<link>http://www.speedkill.org/2008/04/15/1968/#comment-464390</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Stevens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 16:50:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.speedkill.org/2008/04/15/1968/#comment-464390</guid>
		<description>Excellent post.

Isn't it odd that a lot of these folks build their arguments around misconstrued meanings of words? "Theory" is a great example. "Global warming (or evolution) is just a theory." Of course, a &lt;em&gt;scientific &lt;/em&gt;theory is actually pretty sound.

Here it's "faith." "Belief in global warming is like a religion, because it rests on faith." According to Miriam-Webster's, "&lt;a href="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/faith" rel="nofollow"&gt;faith&lt;/a&gt;" has three definitions: 1. Allegiance to duty or a person. 2. Firm belief in something for which there is no proof. 3. Something that is believed especially with strong conviction.

I suspect global warming deniers see our "faith" in global warming as the third definition, but really the second definition is more applicable to religion. Because isn't that what religious faith is? Certainly that term does not apply to people who believe that the scientific communtiy is right on global warming.

I would quibble, however, with your sweeping claim that "lots of environmentalists" are yadda yadda. Who are you talking about? Those that, say, buy Sierra Club calendars and donate money to preserve charsimatic megafauna? Activists? College students with coffee cups clipped to their backpacks? My point is, some of the most knowledgeable people about environmental issues I know are "environmentalists." In a post that's artfully crafted in reason, it's a shame to see a sweeping and prejudiced generalization mar the force of the argument.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post.</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t it odd that a lot of these folks build their arguments around misconstrued meanings of words? &#8220;Theory&#8221; is a great example. &#8220;Global warming (or evolution) is just a theory.&#8221; Of course, a <em>scientific </em>theory is actually pretty sound.</p>
<p>Here it&#8217;s &#8220;faith.&#8221; &#8220;Belief in global warming is like a religion, because it rests on faith.&#8221; According to Miriam-Webster&#8217;s, &#8220;<a href="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/faith" rel="nofollow">faith</a>&#8221; has three definitions: 1. Allegiance to duty or a person. 2. Firm belief in something for which there is no proof. 3. Something that is believed especially with strong conviction.</p>
<p>I suspect global warming deniers see our &#8220;faith&#8221; in global warming as the third definition, but really the second definition is more applicable to religion. Because isn&#8217;t that what religious faith is? Certainly that term does not apply to people who believe that the scientific communtiy is right on global warming.</p>
<p>I would quibble, however, with your sweeping claim that &#8220;lots of environmentalists&#8221; are yadda yadda. Who are you talking about? Those that, say, buy Sierra Club calendars and donate money to preserve charsimatic megafauna? Activists? College students with coffee cups clipped to their backpacks? My point is, some of the most knowledgeable people about environmental issues I know are &#8220;environmentalists.&#8221; In a post that&#8217;s artfully crafted in reason, it&#8217;s a shame to see a sweeping and prejudiced generalization mar the force of the argument.</p>
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		<title>By: Rook's Rant</title>
		<link>http://www.speedkill.org/2008/04/15/1968/#comment-464385</link>
		<dc:creator>Rook's Rant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 14:22:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.speedkill.org/2008/04/15/1968/#comment-464385</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Friday Stolen Code Blogging...&lt;/strong&gt;

My inner thief has returned!...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Friday Stolen Code Blogging&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>My inner thief has returned!&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Big Sky Cairn &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Global Warming Debate - Common Ground</title>
		<link>http://www.speedkill.org/2008/04/15/1968/#comment-464010</link>
		<dc:creator>Big Sky Cairn &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Global Warming Debate - Common Ground</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 15:37:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.speedkill.org/2008/04/15/1968/#comment-464010</guid>
		<description>[...] over at Speedkill has responded to my Global Warming Axioms. His contribution is constructive and well-articulated - although I do [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] over at Speedkill has responded to my Global Warming Axioms. His contribution is constructive and well-articulated - although I do [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Karan</title>
		<link>http://www.speedkill.org/2008/04/15/1968/#comment-463937</link>
		<dc:creator>Karan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 06:14:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.speedkill.org/2008/04/15/1968/#comment-463937</guid>
		<description>IF President Bush had unveiled his goals for reductions in greenhouse gas emissions at the beginning of his administration instead of in its waning months, he might have actually played a role in linking the United States to global efforts to curb climate change. But the proposals he made yesterday, which in 2001 could have been a starting point for negotiations with advocates of stronger action in Congress, are now too belated and too weak to be more than a historical footnote. All three remaining presidential candidates are committed to much more stringent, mandatory reductions in carbon dioxide.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IF President Bush had unveiled his goals for reductions in greenhouse gas emissions at the beginning of his administration instead of in its waning months, he might have actually played a role in linking the United States to global efforts to curb climate change. But the proposals he made yesterday, which in 2001 could have been a starting point for negotiations with advocates of stronger action in Congress, are now too belated and too weak to be more than a historical footnote. All three remaining presidential candidates are committed to much more stringent, mandatory reductions in carbon dioxide.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.speedkill.org/2008/04/15/1968/#comment-463837</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 00:20:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.speedkill.org/2008/04/15/1968/#comment-463837</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;And that is why Global Warming is a religion, because it claims that Global Warming, unlike gravity, is not just a theory but a fact that is above falsification.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Who claims that? Certainly not climate scientists. Even environmentalists seem to avoid going that far. Lots of people claim that the issue is settled scientifically, which I would mostly agree with, but saying that something hasn't been falsified and that something isn't falsifiable are two different claims.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Those models are already failing to predict the weather, and we are barely a decade into their operation. If they are failing from the very start there is strong reason to deny their soundness.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I don't know exactly what you're referring to, but climate isn't weather. Weather is a very low level and stochastic phenomenon. Climate is high level; we're talking about predicting trends, overall temperatures. A climate model missing a day that it rains is irrelevant (nor do they typically even get into that kind of detail).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>And that is why Global Warming is a religion, because it claims that Global Warming, unlike gravity, is not just a theory but a fact that is above falsification.</p></blockquote>
<p>Who claims that? Certainly not climate scientists. Even environmentalists seem to avoid going that far. Lots of people claim that the issue is settled scientifically, which I would mostly agree with, but saying that something hasn&#8217;t been falsified and that something isn&#8217;t falsifiable are two different claims.</p>
<blockquote><p>Those models are already failing to predict the weather, and we are barely a decade into their operation. If they are failing from the very start there is strong reason to deny their soundness.</p></blockquote>
<p>I don&#8217;t know exactly what you&#8217;re referring to, but climate isn&#8217;t weather. Weather is a very low level and stochastic phenomenon. Climate is high level; we&#8217;re talking about predicting trends, overall temperatures. A climate model missing a day that it rains is irrelevant (nor do they typically even get into that kind of detail).</p>
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		<title>By: Mick</title>
		<link>http://www.speedkill.org/2008/04/15/1968/#comment-463795</link>
		<dc:creator>Mick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 16:59:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.speedkill.org/2008/04/15/1968/#comment-463795</guid>
		<description>Sry, last comment. Those models are already failing to predict the weather, and we are barely a decade into their operation. If they are failing from the very start there is strong reason to deny their soundness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sry, last comment. Those models are already failing to predict the weather, and we are barely a decade into their operation. If they are failing from the very start there is strong reason to deny their soundness.</p>
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		<title>By: Mick</title>
		<link>http://www.speedkill.org/2008/04/15/1968/#comment-463650</link>
		<dc:creator>Mick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 05:48:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.speedkill.org/2008/04/15/1968/#comment-463650</guid>
		<description>Gravity is just a theory. Remember that. Global warming is a religeon because it claims it is something that is not a theory, but something is not subject to falsification like the theory of gravity or the theory that the earth is round.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gravity is just a theory. Remember that. Global warming is a religeon because it claims it is something that is not a theory, but something is not subject to falsification like the theory of gravity or the theory that the earth is round.</p>
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